mccaboose13
Mike
@Good Dog Nigel thank you! That’s very true too!
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Power to the People and the Concern of Censorship
- Thread starter mccaboose13
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mccaboose13
Mike
I’m so glad we’ve been able to have these discussions together and share our inputs. I am sorry if shook the forums but I wanted to talk about this in a way that put nothing but respect and support for the Lennon-Ono Family!
This is a very important discussion, Mike! I’m sure this thread itself has helped confused people understand why this decision by the team is not, in any way, a censorship. So I’m truly glad that you brought us here to this thread and that we are able to discuss this topic, especially in days like these that society in general seems to be going back some dangerous behaviors and people seem not to know anymore what a censorship is while constantly hurting other’s rights and believing they have the right to do so.
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mccaboose13
Mike
Thank you, Mariana! It means a lot to have your support. I think John would be dismayed and appalled by the state of today’s world (as would so many other people who have championed this kind of peace and love movement like John and Yoko have). And absolutely, the kind if censorship that is happening in the world today, or even in the past, is not what the leaving out of a song is. Peace and Love to you and the rest of the staff of this over all forum and to the admins and @Sean
Incredibly written and really thoughtful. In a way I'm grateful for all of this given it's created areas for such discussion in relation to the song that had previously been wilfully ignored - and it is still so heartening to me that these discussions are not only being tolerated, but promoted and furthered by the 'Lennon camp' (as the accepted term seems to be, haha). Not to be like those people who bring up what John would have wanted, but if I was playing that card I'd hazard a guess that he would be at least somewhat happy that people were still listening to his songs of peace and love at all, rather than angrily demanding that every note he ever played must be worshipped and defended without question.
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JoBeatles
Member
The thing that gets me is that some people, who are complaining that the song isn't included in the boxed set, have virtually no understanding of the song in the first place! I saw a guy on YouTube yesterday comment that it was a "racist song"! Obviously, this person (male) has never really listened to the words. They focus on one word and that's as far as they go. No need for us to rehash the lyrics again but I will just say this: Yoko was right...about everything! Woman was and still is, the N of the world. Incidentally, I'm focusing on all the never heard before stuff in the boxed set - that's what I'm excited about!
leadfeather
New member
Mariana, if you read my posts in this thread, I hope you can at least acknowledge that I am trying to understand and be respectful for most of the different perspectives. I don't ask you to agree with me that, for me, the overal balance is that I would have hoped for a way to include the song while addressing the problematic use of the word.Fantasticthis is it really! And the fact that, as I said before, the majority of people who are fervently complaining about that decision are, in fact, white men, says it all too. The privilege of “control” - that comes with all that Sean mentioned - and that they are not having this time because of the team’s thoughtful decision is evidently why they are not approving this.
Thank you for sharing it here too, GDN! Really important reflection.
However, I don't feel it is nice that you dismiss the people who have a different perspective because they are white males. Just do the thought experiment on how it would feel if it was said, that somebody has a certain opinion or is doing something because they are a woman, have a certain religion or are from a certain race. Also, keep in mind that there are also many white males that have exactly the same opinion as you have.
I know we all have our prejudices, but I think bottling everybody who does not come to the same conclusion as yourself in 'a single enemy camp' does not help in the polarising times we are living in. I believe, listening to opinions of others, trying to understand the other and explaining your own position with empathy for the other in the end gets us further. And yes, some of the others will have reasons that can not be defended by any reasonable person, but in my experience you will also encounter many that have a reasoning that at least has some validity, even if they are less valid than your own.
If you are being respectful and are not fervently complaining about the decision while keeping your mind open to what others are saying, especially black people, then I wasn’t talking about you. White males are, mostly and undeniably, the ones complaining about a censorship that DOES NOT exist here. And if you didn’t understand what I meant supporting Sean’s text, try re-reading his text.
greenovation
Active member
I totally understand why Sean had to make the decision to exclude a song whose title can’t even be said anywhere on the internet without censorship, so it’s a no-brainer why it is omitted. I’ve waited for the set since I heard of its original intended release 4 years ago. I’ll miss the Ultimate Mix, the 2 One To One performances of it and Sisters O Sisters, and my biggest gripe is the omission of the Mike Douglas Show performances.
But since I always purchase the digital copy, I can insert Woman Is…and Sisters O Sisters where they belong and have a Frankensteined version of what I want. I do miss those Douglas Show performances sounding better than ever, however. But you can’t have everything.
Much love and thanks to Yoko and Sean for blessing me with another box set of my very favorite artist. Although I hope for Double Fantasy next, I’ll easily settle for Walls And Bridges. Peace.
But since I always purchase the digital copy, I can insert Woman Is…and Sisters O Sisters where they belong and have a Frankensteined version of what I want. I do miss those Douglas Show performances sounding better than ever, however. But you can’t have everything.
Much love and thanks to Yoko and Sean for blessing me with another box set of my very favorite artist. Although I hope for Double Fantasy next, I’ll easily settle for Walls And Bridges. Peace.
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Sean and the team remixed all the Mike Douglas Show performances for the 'Daytime Revolution' film, and they sound fantastic, but unfortunately Yoko doesn't own the Master Rights of the recordings - the tapes are owned by the guys who produced the The Mike Douglas Show. We weren't able to get them into this box set in time, but we are hoping that we might be able to work out a deal at some point in the future to put them out together as an EP or something cool like that. And yes, Walls and Bridges will be the next Box Set Ultimate Collection, and is currently scheduled for 2027.
This makes plenty of sense, but your interest and determination in bringing us those recordings despite the logistics/licensing is so gratefully appreciated!! And extra thanks for the future teaser, too
The future of John looks so bright!!
Omg! So many fantastic news all at once
whatever is next under the Estate’s radar is simply just as great as what they are currently doing! Wow, can’t wait
Always a shame when things come down to who-owns-what, but I'm glad the film was at least released for fans to enjoy. Great news to hear that a deal could happen in the future and best of luck for a satisfactory outcome there!
nutopia999
Active member
Were the Mike Douglas performances recorded on multitrack tape? Or were they remixed via DES extraction from the mono track on the 2-inch quadruplex videotape?
greenovation
Active member
Thank you for a very quick and informative response, GDN. I hope you can work out a deal and get me that EP, those were fantastic performances by John & Yoko and Elephants Memory. I have Daytime Revolution and am always amazed at the sound quality over the old Telecasts bootleg I have them on. Thanks for the confirmation on Walls, I can’t wait. Hopefully the EP will happen. Thank you again.
JaneSmith
Historian And Yes I'm A Dreamer
Too bad it isn't like that, but let's hope there can be a solution for that, because it would be wonderful to see it, and what great surprises you bring us with everything that is coming, I still find it hard to believe the thing about walls and bridges, I'm so excited now, I'm about to cry with happiness
How great that very soon we will see that great project, and thank you very much for always being so attentive to us, always keeping us informed about all of that, I love it that way
melina
john lennon♡
nutopia999
Active member
Ok, I read Mr. Murdoch's post and will discuss it.
I always viewed John and Yoko’s use of the N word in the song as ANTI-RACIST. Similarly, I view Quentin Tarantino’s use of the N word as ANTI-RACIST in the film Django Unchained.
I think John and Yoko had as much right to use the N word as Quentin Tarantino. Intent matters.
Mr. Murdoch writes about “the enduring pain [John] would cause Black people.”
But Murdoch fails to substantiate this claim.
Last time I checked, Stevie Wonder and Roberta Flack were on the bill with John at the One To One concert. Doesn't sound like they were suffering "enduring pain." And Mr. Wonder jammed with John in 1974 and eulogized him in 1980. Maybe these folks understood that Mr. Lennon's use of the word was anti-racist.
But if you agree with Mr. Murdoch's essay, why is this song still being commercially sold and exploited by the Lennon Estate in any form? If John's song is really causing black people to suffer enduring pain, then ban the song and ask Sean to tithe to the NAACP.
But the Estate is still selling this song via the original album across multiple distribution platforms -- but just not in the new box set, right?
Since the song is still otherwise being sold by the Lennon Estate (see attached image below), deleting this song only from the new box set (and Madison Square Garden concerts) comes across more like a commercial decision (production, distribution or otherwise) to avoid the risk of potentially reduced sales of new products/merchandise.
What if some people who don't understand the intent of a 1972 agitprop lyric in an archival box set start complaining about the song's use of the N word on social media? A viral outrage could result in unsold box sets in a warehouse and lack of a distribution streaming deals for the two One to One concerts. Why take that financial risk?
Some folks call this censorship. Maybe it's more of a "self-neutering" to reduce unnecessary risk that could jeopardize the distribution of new business projects within a social media-dominated culture.
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Sorry, I don't feel it's right to discuss technical details until we've agreed a position to release it with the rights holders.
WALLS AND BRIDGES IN 2027????? I HAVE A REASON TO LIVE.
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