Mystery: Unreleased August 1980 studio videotape footage of John performing Double Fantasy songs

[nutopia999]

JON SMITH (Assistant Engineer, Double Fantasy): "He told us that he pulled the tape out of their shells and flushed them down the toilet.” -- Ken Sharp interview with Jon Smith, from the book: Starting Over: The Making of John Lennon and Yoko Ono's Double Fantasy

Does anyone believe John flushed 3,170 foot rolls of 1-inch Hit Factory videotape down the john?

 

[nutopia999]

JACK DOUGLAS (Producer, Double Fantasy): "Now here's what... I asked John where it was, I've heard two things. "I tore it up in the bathtub," "I sunk it in the pool."... But I heard that it exists somewhere…" -- Ken Sharp interview with Jack Douglas, Beatlefan #116

Who believes it was torn up in the bathtub?

 

[nutopia999]

John appears to be paying respect to Elvis with the outfit he wore for his 1980 Hit Factory videotaping session:

• Unbuttoned red silk shirt? ✓
• Black sport coat? ✓
• Black pants? ✓
• Ready to rock? ✓

 

[nutopia999]

Per the clapperboard images, it appears that at least two rolls (reels?) of videotape survive from single night videotaping session, Aug. 18-19, 1980 at The Hit Factory. And I’m wondering if “Roll #1” and “Roll #2” are actually the whole “kit and caboodle” -- meaning all the footage has survived.

Hypothetically, if Roll #1 and Roll #2 are the full recorded output of what director Jay Dubin recorded and handed over to Jack Douglas' business partner, Stan Vincent, the morning of Aug. 19, 1980, both reels of 1-inch videotape may not be consecutive. Instead, they could be concurrent.

In other words, the director may have used two video cameras and two portable 1-inch video recorders. If true, the “I’m Losing You” angles / takes could be at the beginning of BOTH tape reels (i.e. "Roll 1" and "Roll 2"). And Yoko’s “I’m Moving On” angles / takes could be on the latter half of BOTH tape reels.

In this scenario, Roll #1 could be "Camera A" and Roll #2 could be "Camera B," simple as that.

If each roll is a 66-minute 9-inch reel (not confirmed), 132 minutes of total tape recording time should theoretically be enough blank tape to capture the multiple takes and angles if only two songs were attempted (“I’m Losing You” and “I’m Moving On”).

New theory:

• Two videocameras
• Two 1-inch Type C portable videotape recorders
• Two 66-minute 9-inch videotape reels (maximum reel size for coaxial stacked Type C portable recorders)
• Maximum record time: 132 combined minutes of videotape
  • Roll #1 / Camera A (66-minute tape)
    • Takes 1-6 “I’m Losing You” (unknown angles / musicians)
    • Takes 7-9 “I’m Losing You” (close-up hand inserts of John seen in the 2015 YouTube clip)
    • Takes 10 and up “I’m Moving On” (unknown angles / musicians)
  • Roll #2 / Camera B (66-minute tape)
    • Takes 1 to unknown “I’m Losing You” (unknown angles / musicians)
    • Takes 13 and up “I’m Moving On” (take 13 clapperboard seen in 1992 Yoko film Tsukai Ningen-Den) / (unknown angles / musicians)

This theory could explain why Yoko's officially released Hit Factory footage published in the 1992 film Tsukai Ningen-Den is associated with Take 13 (the latter part of the reel, not the start of the reel), per below.

 

[nutopia999]

Why did John's footage never come out? My theory is John disliked his long hair / ponytail in the Hit Factory video footage and therefore shelved it. After John's first video performance takes, he put on Yoko's white baseball cap to cover up his hair for the remainder of his takes. The day after the videotaping, Aug. 20, John is photographed with his hair freshly cut. The chronological photo sequence below from Aug. 18 - Aug. 20, 1980 illustrates this.

Dialogue about John putting on a cap during the videotaping (from the Jack Douglas "hidden mic" tapes):

John: "Is Fred back yet?" " I want to be putting a cap on, because by the time this goes out, I'll have different hair and we might want to fake it. So it's just a white baseball cap and if it gives you a problem, f*** it, we'll just leave the hair, but otherwise it would be nice if we can, 'cause then you can't really tell what it is."
[Later after initial takes without a cap]
Director Jay Dubin: "How about your hat? Do you want to do it with the hat?"
John: "Does it make any difference to you?"
Jay Dubin: "No, we can't use the first shot we took."
John: "Of course, we can. Oh, you can't use it anyway?"
Jay Dubin: "No, we'll lose continuity. If you put the hat on, we'll lose continuity."
John: "Don't worry about it. We'll cut between the hat and no hat. I don't believe in continuity."
John to Yoko: "Right, Mother? It doesn't matter if we cut from the hat to no hat?"

Below: Aug. 18, 1980 - John's long hair is pulled back in ponytail prior to the night videotaping of "I'm Losing You."



Below: Circa 12 a.m. Aug. 19, 1980 - After initial takes, John has covered up his long hair with Yoko's white baseball cap as seen in footage that leaked in 2015.



Below: Aug. 20, 1980 - On the day after videotaping, John is photographed with a fresh haircut.

 

[nutopia999]

 

[CynCP]

Why did John's footage never come out? My theory is John disliked his long hair / ponytail in the Hit Factory video footage and therefore shelved it. After John's first video performance takes, he put on Yoko's white baseball cap to cover up his hair for the remainder of his takes. The day after the videotaping, Aug. 20, John is photographed with his hair freshly cut. The chronological photo sequence below from Aug. 18 - Aug. 20, 1980 illustrates this.

Dialogue about John putting on a cap during the videotaping (from the Jack Douglas "hidden mic" tapes):

John: "Is Fred back yet?" " I want to be putting a cap on, because by the time this goes out, I'll have different hair and we might want to fake it. So it's just a white baseball cap and if it gives you a problem, f*** it, we'll just leave the hair, but otherwise it would be nice if we can, 'cause then you can't really tell what it is."
[Later after initial takes without a cap]
Director Jay Dubin: "How about your hat? Do you want to do it with the hat?"
John: "Does it make any difference to you?"
Jay Dubin: "No, we can't use the first shot we took."
John: "Of course, we can. Oh, you can't use it anyway?"
Jay Dubin: "No, we'll lose continuity. If you put the hat on, we'll lose continuity."
John: "Don't worry about it. We'll cut between the hat and no hat. I don't believe in continuity."
John to Yoko: "Right, Mother? It doesn't matter if we cut from the hat to no hat?"

Below: Aug. 18, 1980 - John's long hair is pulled back in ponytail prior to the night videotaping of "I'm Losing You."

View attachment 1651

Below: Circa 12 a.m. Aug. 19, 1980 - After initial takes, John has covered up his long hair with Yoko's white baseball cap as seen in footage that leaked in 2015.

View attachment 1653

Below: Aug. 20, 1980 - On the day after videotaping, John is photographed with a fresh haircut.

View attachment 1652

It's a viable theory. John look very handsome with his Aug 20 haircut - I'd say Yoko approves as well!

 

[nutopia999]

One of the biggest mysteries of the Hit Factory videotaping session is: was the "oldies" warm-up jam videotaped?

John of course loved Elvis Presley, and we know from the Jack Douglas Double Fantasy "hidden mic" tapes that they jammed on several oldies just prior to "I'm Losing You," including "Mystery Train," a Junior Parker song popularized by Elvis.

John was clearly paying homage to Elvis' 1955 recording on Sun Records.

And here's an August 1970 live rendition by Elvis to illustrate how exciting the song could be live.

Below is a low fidelity excerpt from the Jack Douglas hidden mic tapes confirming that John and the Double Fantasy band performed a jam of "Mystery Train" on the night of the videotaping session. And it sounds like Earl Slick is playing electric slide guitar in the background.

I wonder if Jack Douglas also recorded the oldies jam on multitrack tape at 15-inches per second. If so, it should exist in much better sonic fidelity because the circulating hidden mic tapes were just rough un-mixed two-track reference tapes recorded at the slowest possible tape speed to document the entire sessions.

 

[nutopia999]

 

[nutopia999]

 

[nutopia999]

 

[nutopia999]

 

[nutopia999]

"Ooh...I love it when you talk dirty!"*



*From the Jack Douglas hidden mic tapes.

 

[Good Dog Nigel]

This thread is becoming SPAM and with no sight of any resolution will likely soon be closed.

 

[Brian Of Nazareth]

It’s such a fascinating thread and mystery to the tale. However, the most significant aspect of the whole thing is I was born on the 19th August 1980

 

[aplacencia]

¡Aprecio la investigación y documentación de todos sobre este tema! Este metraje también sería un elemento del "santo grial" para mí. Tengo el libro de Taschen con las exquisitas fotografías de Kishin Shinoyama del período Double Fantasy / Milk and Honey y la idea de algún día ver (y escuchar) imágenes de esas sesiones es muy emocionante.

como se llama el libro?

 

[aplacencia]

Departamento de a quién le preguntes, las cintas de vídeo fueron destruidas sumergiendolas en agua, prendiendoles fuego o tirandolas por el inodoro...

JACK DOUGLAS (Productor, Doble fantasía): "Y esto es lo que... Le pregunté a John dónde estaba y escuché dos costas. "Lo rompí en la bañera", "Lo hundí en la piscina"... Pero escuché que existe en alguna parte…" -- Entrevista de Ken Sharp con Jack Douglas, Beatlefan #116

JON SMITH (Ingeniero asistente, Doble fantasía): "John nos dijo que los vio y dijo que odiaba el video, así que destruyó las cintas. Nos dijo que sacó la cinta de sus caparazones y los tiró por el inodoro.” -- Entrevista de Ken Sharp con Jon Smith, Empezando de nuevo: la creación de Double Fantasy de John Lennon y Yoko Ono

YOKO: “Creo que lo único que se filmó fue "I'm Moving On" y "I'm Losing You" Y la forma en que fue filmado fue muy mala, y cuando John lo vio diario "Oh" (risas), ya sabes. Bueno, no digo nada. Él estaba totalmente molesto. Tomé todo el negativo de la película y lo puso en la bañera (risas) y lo llenó de agua. "No sé si sólo llenarlo de agua lo va a destruir, pero también era como él quería destruirlo (risas)" Entrevista del 7 de septiembre de 2000 con Jody Denberg

El 18 de septiembre de 2024, @javilu77 publicó en el Foro de Steve Hoffman que el fotógrafo Bob Gruen le dijo que prendió fuego al video:

@javilu77 Le pregunté a Bob Gruen sobre esto y me respondió que John odiaba lo delgado que se veía en las imágenes y le ordenó a Gruen que pusiera la película en una bañera y le prendiera fuego, lo cual hizo

REVÓLVER DISCOTECAS (aka @keith27012) quien publicó por primera vez vez el fragmento del metro de John en YouTube en 2015 escribió: "Soy un ex propietario de una tienda de discotecas jubilado de Nueva York...Yoko no ha querido publicar nueva de estas imágenes porque a John no le gustó su apariencia, pero a pesar de los rumores de lo contrario, no se han perdido ni han sido robadas, existen en sus archivos. Lo único que tenemos los colectivos son copias...No hay ninguna razón particular para ello ahora, aparte de que el estado recopilando videos desde la década de 1970, pero comencé mi canal de YouTube en los últimos meses. "Las imágenes de Te estoy perdiendo el ingreso reciente y tengo entendido que había 4 carretes diferentes desde 4 ángulos de cámara diferentes, pero solo este que ves ha caído en manos de unos pocos coleccionistas" Fuente: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thre...dio-footage-found-im-losing-you.454497/page-8

el usuario: DISCOTECAS REVÓLVER (aka @keith27012)
Falleció hace unos años, su esposa lo comentario en el mismo video, antes de ser borrado de you tube. Al borrar el canal se perdieron todas las primicias que publicó de muchas bandas, tomas inéditas, etc.

Espero alguien puede publicar los videos de demás.